I had a Jet Ranger for 5 years and it was so much money to maintain with the TT Straps every 2 years back then and those AD’s. And why? Thanks again for the great blog posts… I just found your site thru a link…. I could not pay myself pilot’s pay (25%) after collecting the season’s revenues and paying the bills. Applying chemicals or fertilizer is an expensive exercise and has to be cost … All forestry spraying is flown from our custom-built Truck helipads. Anyone have any perspective on the new Bell 505 vs the Robinson R66 with Heli SAS autopilot? Ground Operations (loader truck repairs, trade pick-up every fourth year, fuel, general maintenance) $25,000 a year. So, I’ll take the simplest example possible and work from there. But that doesn’t mean I won’t try to get an exemption. And here’s a secret: I STILL look up and stare when a helicopter flies by. The RMAX is a helicopter design UAV for precision agriculture spraying with price estimates from $80-$120,000, however, according to the company website “Yamaha will offer a service to interested growers; however, in the future we also plan to offer a lease option to growers/businesses that have the proper licenses and qualifications. A service bulletin that became an airworthiness directive required inspection and then repainting (or replacement) of the main rotor blades. And we can’t really expect the manufacturer to foot the bill for a change required by the FAA. I think gyros are very cool. He told me about his plans to lease an R44 helicopter to start a business in a small Wyoming city. Another $100 a tach hour, driving the gross to $1,500 an hour? Are you still flying your R44? I know this is an old post but just happened to come across it. People are so freaking clueless sometimes. I have to fly for hire. Actually you can check Youtube they are already out there, they are not expensive to buy nor maintain. How much would all this cost from the most affordable to the most expensive if I never flew it? Maria thank you for saving me a ton of money girlfrin. It was very interesting to read and a first hand knowledge on helicopter maintenance. Helicopter pilot training costs $200 per hour for flight time with an instructor, and $150 to $175 per hour for solo-flying time. Instead I’ll just say that when one flies overhead, I MUST stop what I’m doing, and stare at it until it is out of sight. The annual premium in the current estimated operating costs — around $11,000 — aren’t too far off from what I paid when I insured with them for my commercial operation. That told me his estimates were low. Sincerely, Mark, Glad you liked the blog post. LOL. Both were totaled and neither caught fire. that would perform 80% of your missions and still allow you to enjoy flying. It cost about $220K. The W100+ oil I use costs about $6/quart and I seem to be adding a quart every 5 hours or so. Ok, where are we now with our hourly gross? They are absolutely horrible there. It’s a shame. Silly there is no second turbine on the Bell 206 B3 but because its a RR250 C20B I had to comply with (56 000) then the compressor and all the calendar time items. A rule of thumb could be 20%. Part of my original issues was the fact that I had a mechanic who liked to spend my money on new parts I probably didn’t need. 100.00 10. He could fly along on one of your you tube flights. Factors would include pilot costs, insurance, fuel, application products, etc. Of course, anyone can tear holes into the above numbers. And I don’t think he considered getting a hangar and an office and all the things that go with running a business. I have been a helicopter pilot for 42 years and an owner/operator for 15 years. Good thing I complied with SB-55. We are more than happy to offer an obligation free quote and we can also recommend chemical application rates however we do advise you to … Four years later, on January 8, 2005, I’d traded it in for a brand-spanking-new, designed to my specifications, 2005 Robinson R44 Raven II. I own a house in the burbs and a ranch 50mi to the north, in Texas. After all, they are required to be rebuilt every 500 hours. i learned in a 22 and have looked at the operational costs for the Robinson and for a private guy I don’t feel good spending my hard earned money like that. I agree: the Robinson is a cost-effective machine to operate at a profit. To start, let’s assume we are discussing a single, turbine aircraft operation flying 500 hours a year. According to him, JD had presented certain facts to his audience that shined an impending light upon true operating costs. I hope I hurry up and find the right place at the right time cause I’m 52 in November and time doesn’t stop for anyone. Posted by Bill Lavender | Apr 3, 2017 | Editorials | 0. Yet every time it happens, I spend $1000 to $1800 getting it fixed. I’m not giving up. This can assist clients in getting maximum results for minimum cost. I have been curious about this topic and this happens to be the first article I found. were is it going to stop???? No one knows for sure, but a good starting place are looking at the hidden costs incurred during the last three years. What really kills me, though, is the number of people who think they’re doing me a favor by offering to pay for gas in exchange for a ride. Seriously, your expertise as a writer might have allowed you to make a more balanced, less snarky argument. Brilliant Maria. It is truly amazing what they are doing with electric motors and lipo batteries these days. Im always try to read this type of information directly from the source. The R44 and BELL 47, which are often used in helicopter aerial applications in Indiana, are compact aircraft that easily transport large quantities of spray, reducing fuel costs. Sorry. thanks. Adding another aircraft to the calculation would not double your expenses, some can be shared, and your overall hourly cost would be reduced. Yet the Robinson document is never seriously questioned by anyone. @Jim gregory Row Crop Spraying VersaAir precision aerial application provides up to 95% spray coverage, allowing for better yields. Of course, significant costs could be combined by the owner being pilot and manager and a significant other being one of the laborers. So, I decided to sell to my competitor with the agreement I could fly my old customers and at least earn pilot’s pay, but without the headaches of being an operator. And, the list goes on. Well written, changed my whole perspective of owning a hobby helicopter especially Robinson. My six-figure income years are gone. Plus, everyone knows that an ag-plane is not productive 100% of the hours logged in a season. And oil: Robinson estimates 50¢/hour. How much hidden costs to use in a budget? excellent post. This post allows for a sneak preview. We have some ferry flights and training flights that we cannot invoice. In 1985, I sold my flying service. Do you know which manufacturer, if any produce a small helicopter for around a million dollars, with accurate advertised operating costs? This is an incredible service to so many around the world who have the same questions I have had. Up for sale is an immaculate Bell 47G-5 Helicopter. As for the information change — that’s a good question. Add hangar, other equipment, training, etc. Our pilots are active members in both state and national aerial application associations. US $3600-$4900 / Set. How far does the range go from the most affordable to the most expensive? Order) 3 YRS Yuren UAV (Zhuhai) Co., Ltd. Get new posts by email. Some of the numbers just didn’t seem right. 1 Unit ... YUREN Long Range Agricultural Drone Helicopter Sprayer for Pesticide Spraying. It is very informative and written in a manner that one, such as myself, can easily understand. What a fantastic article, from a first time helicopter purchaser – well, maybe now………..!!! USD for new VVIP Helicopters to $100,000 for older cargo Helicopters. Since writing this post, I’ve had several major life changes and finally found a nice doing contract work with my R44 that covers all my costs and helps me live the kind of lifestyle I like: simple and mostly stress-free. And none of them were included in Robinson’s estimate of costs. Thanks for taking the time to comment! All that from an article. This is not one of the estimated costs on Robinson’s fairy … There simply is no way around it. To get any benefit from it, I’d have to crash with enough impact and fuel on board to cause a fire. I’d say the real cost is pretty close to what I reported. On the other hand I have very rarely had a commercial mission cancelled due to a tech fault in my 3000hrs in the Robbie. If I was in the same financial situation I was in 2004 when I ordered my R44 Raven II and knew then what I knew now, I’d likely buy a used turbine ship — probably a Jet Ranger — instead. … The following posts might be related to this post: well written, factual…and sadly very true I have owned a r22 and r44ii in the past, and agree that the unexpected costs can be a bear. We also have additional eq. Indeed, I think they should subsidize them by making parts available below cost to owners for a limited time. Treating 200 acres an hour at $7.00 an acre, works out to $1,400 which would give the owner/operator a $262 an hour profit (18.7%). But with that said, I don’t see any reason why the manufacturer needs to profit from these required changes. My question is what price is reasonable for a 2200hr r44ii or raven I? Unfortunately your last three paragraphs poison those that precede it: “But hey, why believe me? My helicopter actually settled down cost-wise after I wrote this post. Can you do that? But hey, why believe me? Of course, anyone can tear holes into the above numbers. I agree 100%. Of course, that calculation doesn’t include my other costs to operate a business: advertising, supplies, travel, hangar rent, automobiles, taxes, fees, etc., etc. Okay, this makes sense. Heli-Central operate two helicopters to support the sugar cane industry from Proserpine to Camilla. I have no idea what the going price is for a timed-out R44. First, thanks for the kind words. But when that wasn’t enough to counter liability, Robinson followed up with three service bulletins: SB-67 (R44 II Fuel Hose Supports), SB-68 (Rigid Fuel Line Replacement), and now SB-78 (Fuel Tank Bladder Retrofit). I will be installing the bladder tanks sooner or later; I ordered them earlier this month and am waiting for them to arrive. I want to know if this information change a lot from 2010 to 2018? It doesn’t make my flight any safer. If you think you are building equity in your aircraft, maybe even in your business, that could be another whole topic of debate. Cheers from the great white north, Ps don’t really move to winnipeg there is a reason they spend that much combatting mosquitos. I live in the desert and my helicopter is hangared. Later, I had a mechanic who charged me $75/hour. Titled “R44 Raven II Estimated Operating Costs,” it painted a rosy picture of an “affordable” helicopter (if there is such a thing). I was there and I know what it’s like. Clinic Dates Set: April Fly-Ins In California and Texas. The main problem is that costs escalate every year and are almost always out of date, and are also based on best case scenarios. My name is Alex, sorry for bothering you. can’t list all repairs, replacement, 2 mufflers, boost pump Stress-free, cost effective and efficient. Best regards Engine maintenance (PT6A-34AG/H80) 65.00 4. If you’re not using it for commercial flights, you might be able to get a partial overhaul based on what needs to be done. Obviously your fuel costs are higher — I’m currently paying $5-$6 per gallon. I imagine the more technologically advanced the higher the ops. They’re making us pay to reduce their liability to us. Do you have an idea what the burn rate is & how that impacts cost per hour (my guess is that the $200 an hour on the Robbie brochures is a bit optimistic for this type of flying)? Show your appreciation one of the following ways: Post was not sent - check your email addresses! New Y20pro agricultural pesticide sprayer drone helicopter electric sprayer. Sorry, but I don’t offer helicopter consultation services. That’s like requiring older car owners to add airbags and ABS brakes just to reduce the liability of the automakers. So his numbers were very low and I knew it. I agree: it’s best to get information from people with first-hand experience. Best wishes! And I replaced the seat belt attachment points and changed the throttle link and swapped out the frame tube clamp and fiddled with the throttle linkage and changed the fuel hose supports and replaced the hard fuel lines and replaced the gascolator assembly and did something to the clutch actuator fuse holder wiring. I have seen a timed out R44ll with A/C and bladder tanks for $130k, but fear this is still too much money. Helicopter spraying with 2,4,5-T to release young white pines. This post is old and my experiences got better over time, but one thing is true: it isn’t cheap to own a helicopter. Do they honestly expect me to put all my passengers in flight suits with helmets for tours around Phoenix? The pilot made almost $20,000 more without the financial risks. Also curious how much operating in a marine environment would change things. Helicopter prices can range from $27,000,000. Originally engineered for agricultural spray applications on rice paddies in Japan, Yamaha units are now utilized for applications on rice, wine grapes, invasive weeds, tree fruit, sugar cane, and volcanic sensing. If you can’t honestly look at costs, you can’t succeed. Fuel (50 gph X $2.50) 125.00 7. Helicopter Charter & Rental Service Aircraft-Charter, Rental & Leasing Airlines. :-). Howden Helicopters were still spraying in the UK as late as 1993 with Bell 47's. There is no reason this should work out the way it did; it just did. Expect running cost of the turbine. My technical manager called me today about the bladder tanks and I found some comfort in your text :) We are operating in Norway and our cost estimates are somewhat different. 1991 model. Best of luck with your business plans. The upper bearing began leaking brown fluid at about 850 hours. At the same time, I had one mechanic charging me $95/hour and another charging me $105/hour. (Ground spraying rigs you have to drive or tow there. Fueling my opinion on this matter was a document published by Robinson Helicopter Company on its Web site. I will do further research now into Bell & Agusta Westland models, because of your article and double the money for the initial purchase price. Get a conversation going -- you never know what you'll learn. It’s left me very disillusioned. The original system first flew in the mid 1960’s, and now, approximately 50 years and many helicopters later they have decided that the original mounts must be replaced within 18 months. cost I mentioned above. The situation got so bad that it all needed replacement. This method of spraying has many advantages, such as: No trampling of crops No ruts in the field Extremely accurate (GPS technology) One bad way to look at it is this: If I don’t get it changed per the SB and my passengers die in a post-crash fire, the liability for the fire falls on me, even if they can’t prove that the fire was caused by a tank design issue. I’ve discussed this at some length with two other owners and here’s what we think. I asked for his notes, as this is one of my favorite things to ponder. It also doesn’t include the $2,100 per month I pay on my aircraft loan or my initial $160,000 cash downpayment. Sometimes you get lucky. Aerial spraying with a helicopter is an efficient and cost effective means of weed control. US $3499-$3999 / Unit. So, after 6 years of operations, I’m seeing an average hourly cost of $300 per hour — not Robinson’s rosy $185. The pump costs $1,600 new and $800 overhauled. Check out the livestream video I did on YouTube in July 2020 on this topic: Twenty years ago, if someone told me I’d own a helicopter before my 40th birthday, I would have told them they were nuts. And how much can I expect to spend in fuel, again a range from the most affordable to the most expensive? Fuel is about 16 litres and hour – or £40, but that’s because the UK is so damned expensive for motor fuel. Lower acquisition costs versus larger pieces of equipment (ground spraying tractors) or manned aircraft. The last time, it lasted less than 8 months and 100 hours. I can tell you exactly how much I spent on insurance, fuel, oil, maintenance, and repairs over the past 6 years: $208,000. Do the math. We have still not added a line item for hidden costs. I could have been building turbine time all these years to leave me in a better situation for when I simply can’t afford to keep this ship anymore and have to sell it. I’ve now replaced mine THREE times in 1100 hours. I was interested to hear that you were able to send a mechanic to the factory maint. Gyr. This helicopter has very low total time (just over 2000hr) and only 100hr since major overhaul in … If you have something to add to this post, please use the Comments form to speak your mind. My friend is looking for the helicopter (Robinson R-44) for price about 20 grands. Do you think the Enstrom has more experience in manufacturing Helicopters? As for ADs and SBs being a cash cow — well, I agree within limits. During the summer season, these helicopters spray over 6,000 hectares of sugar cane and grazing country as well as applying fertiliser and seeding. Those folks brought up in the texting generation don’t see the importance of good grammar and punctuation, mostly because their abbreviated text communications have been accepted for so long. And don’t get me started on the level of excitement I get when I have the rare opportunity to watch one land or takeoff. This is not one of the estimated costs on Robinson’s fairy tale cost estimate marketing document. something must be done by Robinson to m ake good on their reputation and design..now the 2 SB from dec 29, fuel bladder, cluctch mechanism… I know because I’ve bought them both ways. One AD was to add a containment ring on the turbine in case it explode and dammage the second turbine. If you love what you do for a living, you’re not really “working” — and if you get paid enough to live comfortably, that’s even better. Your blog has given me great pause and it has forced me to be far more realistic about what I can expect as far as a career change and subsequent life. The old joke, how do you make a million dollars in aviation? Obviously, I can’t survive on that. That baffled me. First, in July 2006, came Safety Notice 40, which states: There have been a number of cases where helicopter or light plane occupants have survived an accident only to be severely burned by fire following the accident. An example is, Bell have just come out with one that requires owners/operators to change the old style two piece vertical fin attachment with a new cast one piece attachment. Unfortunately, I have a lot of competition in the area flying similar equipment and have to limit pricing to stay competitive. By my calculations, this should cost me between $12,000 and $14,000. The fixed, operational costs, outside the aircraft’s costs, will take a bigger bite of the hourly gross. If you don’t like he way I write, don’t come back. Sometimes I know the pilot. Happy flying. I enjoyed your story…Some ideas to make your business more profitable… Spam-free; unsubscribe anytime. Each one of these required maintenance items cost money — sometimes thousands of dollars. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Reminds me how much I miss the good old days (1962) when I flew for a FBO in St Paul, MN. In the above scenario, most likely the operator and pilot would be the same person. Any cost estimates provided by the manufacturer will be pure fantasy based on best-case scenarios with minimal hourly rates and unit costs. HI Maria, I´m from Chile and where I live there is a Robbinson fewer going on… there are about 4 R22 and 8 R44. You should get your A&P. Somewhere in the above budget there has to be an allocation for operational profit. After all if you are happy doing what you love that is what matters. Not likely. 50.00 8. 16 years were as an agricultural spray pilot. Powered by a 1994 Subaru EJ22 engine with tuned headers ... Vortech, Inc. Fallston, MD - 2,187 mi. 2.0 Units (Min. Ouch. You can’t control costs when a manufacturer can force expensive upgrades. It’s the unexpected costs — SBs, SLs, ADs, and parts breaking too soon — that really hit hard. What is really going on here is the need for a budget. 50.00 5. That’s okay. Because we charge about USD1100 an hour, the op still makes sence. Needs to written off. Based on your comments it seems like he is burning a lot of fuel. Projected operating costs are works of fantasy,and not just Robinson’s. This will share the burden of the retrofit’s cost. Cross-Country Helicopter Flight from Malaga to McMinnville, Part 4, Helicopter Photo Flight: 737 MAX Airplanes at Moses Lake, Helicopter Flight: Central Washington Geology Tour, Part 2, Arizona to Washington by Helicopter, Again, Helicopter Flight from Washington to Arizona, Day 2: Desert Heat and Familiar Terrain, Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), did something to the clutch actuator fuse holder wiring, I spent almost $12K to replace my helicopter’s fuel tanks, So You Want to Be a Helicopter Pilot, Part 5: Check Your Attitude at the Door, Back then, Robinson was calculating labor at $55/hour. On the other hand, you could say this works in the inverse with a larger aircraft, for example an aircraft with an 800-gallon hopper. If I still had that big writing income, I wouldn’t mind so much. Maintenance? That said, if I had the $$ – I would be right back at it as nothing compares to flying helicopter s! The lack of this cushion has been the downfall of many businesses. Here Carlos in Chicago If I had the time to learn to fly them, I would. Thank you again for your openness. Alex. Countryview Farms Helicopter Air Services is entering into another season of operations specializing in custom aerial spray applications. The overhaul was $3,000 plus installation (which requires removal of the tail cone). You may never know exactly, but you must have some gauge to go by. Thanks, and I look forward to reading other posts. Office (hangar rent, phone, utilities) 50.00, Total Costs = $1146.00 per hour. 1x Hughes 500 Helicopter Spraying, Top Dressing, Lifting, Fire Fighting, Long Line Lifting, Commercial Operations Air Charter Operations Max Lift 500kg. My pockets are not as deep as they once were. They examine the problem area and come up with a new design to fix it in the future. Six months after purchasing the ship, which had 900 hours and was always hangared, I received an AD requiring new main rotor blades at a cost of $12k per blade. Management (one employee @ $60,000) 120.00 9. Tell that to the folks at Grand Canyon, who hit me up for $6/gallon early this month. I also believe that most of the Alert Service Bulletins are a money generating cash cow. Too many of us are “programmed” at a young age to seek careers that pay good money and then get sucked into jobs we hate. I am now retired, and thinking of buying a R44 that is timed out, and doing the field overhaul, not the 12 year inspection. Better idea to buy a turbine as the Robo isn’t all that cheap. So yes, I changed the orientation of the fuel control because some idiot who likely left his helicopter out in the rain all the time was getting water in his fuel — even though my helicopter was based in the desert, where it rarely rained, and was kept in a hangar. Thanks Maria, Just ordered my R44 for 2018 and appreciate your detailed list of costs. When you look at the cost of acquisition, the fixed cost of ownership, and operating costs, a helicopter like mine costs a heck of a lot more than the $185.10 per hour Robinson estimates. Maybe I’ll find a solution that’ll combine a readout for that stupid RA with ADS-B In/Out, which I’ll need in 2020.