In the barge designed by Jerome Horowitz, we find another interesting design. Consistent with its times, the peaked ends of Jaredite barges (Ether 2:17) suggested that they retained the shape of a Sumerian river barge. Download. They lived almost exclusively in North America for exactly thirty-two generations, after which time they annihilated themselves, all but two men, in a civil war, in about 600 B.C. One of the exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, which has a name similar to Book of Mormon names like Lamoni and Laman. Here's a rough sketch (click to … It would mean that Joseph wrote the BoM himself rather than translating it from ancient source, yet nonetheless somehow managed to provide an accurate history of New World events. The Hebrew word zohar translated as the window of the ark has a meaning of light and, according to some old Jewish sources, might refer to a glowing stone used as a light source. So a little cross-circulation was often needed--but they would encounter a lot of waves along the way and had to be judicious in opening the ports. The Know. This comparison with the vessel constructed by Noah enables us to draw several parallels between the two vessels, each of which had been constructed according to the Lord's instructions. [1] CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT)[2] “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=8&num=1&id=192[3] Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999[4] Ibid, CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT), “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999, Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999, African Americans Could Not Hold the Priesthood Until 1978, Eliza Snow Pushed Down Stairs By Emma Smith. But we do have consistent relationships between cities and terrain features that can be used to construct maps that can be correlated with various degrees of success with specific ancient sites. MYTH: Jaredite Barge found in Lake Michigan, On January 25, 1999, some members of the Mormon community became prematurely excited when a large, wooden, boat-like object was discovered at the bottom of Lake Michigan. “Now after Mosiah had finished translating these records, behold, it gave an account of the people who were destroyed” Mosiah 28:17. The record then goes on to relate how Jared and The Brother of Jared along with their family and friends left the tower of Babel and were ultimately led to the seashore where they constructed barges to come to The Land of Promise. This epic adventure is his favorite story found in the Book of … Just think of James Fenimore Cooper's Last of the Mohicans. His solution was to … I think the ports remained open and fresh air flowed freely through the barges when the weather permitted. And somebody muck the stables already!This would have at least made a little bit of sense:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and thou shalt leave the upper hole unstopped, lest ye suffer for air. 2021 Awards and Funding from the BYU Charles Redd Center for Western Studies. The art for the Jaredite barges seems primarily based upon traditional (non-Mormon) art for Noah’s ark. Recently I had the pleasant surprise of meeting an ex-Mormon in the halls of an LDS building who appears to be on his way back. The Book of Ether (/ ˈ iː θ ər /) is one of the books of the Book of Mormon.It describes the Jaredites, descendants of Jared and his companions, who were led by God to the Americas shortly after the confusion of tongues and the destruction of the Tower of Babel. The ‘logistics’ are what make Smith’s stories absurd. Reading these verses, it seems apparent that the Lord most likely answered the steering question and that our record is just a little vague. QED. What results is a lengthy explanation about what a seer is and how they operate with revelatory devices I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift … The fundamentalist-literalist idea that myth and other forms of fiction is somehow not up to these tasks is a very strange one.Similarly, proof of the BoM's antiquity would not in itself allow us to choose between (1) and (2) above. 20 minutes? Actually, Jeff, I left the Old World out of my "carefully worded statement" because the BoM refers to Old World places that are actually real but were well known to Smith from the Bible -- Jerusalem, Judah, the Red Sea -- not because I'm impressed with NHM.But you're right to say that identifiable Nephite sites might be somewhere out there in the Americas, waiting to be found someday.Somewhere....Someday....Tomorrow! Jaredite Barges: Fact or Fiction? This historical grounding does not, of course, change the fact that Last of the Mohicans is fiction. The Jaredites crossed the sea to the New World in eight "barges" in 344 days, driven by currents and winds. Great article, Jeff. I've suspected that there might be some disingenuousness in apologetics, and the fact that Jeff can willfully parody the tortuous arguments only makes me more suspicious. Nibley's analysis, however, relied in part on a questionable reading of a phrase in the Jaredite record … Anonymous, I'm not sure what you mean about rejecting what Moroni said. Before we start, let's squash the claim that the Jaredite story was a myth in an otherwise historical Book of Mormon. … It doesn't change the fact that Natty Bumppo and Duncan Heyward never really existed.Ditto for the Bible. Lucy Mack Smith Episode 34. Sometimes I forget how far down the rabbithole we are. But it made no sense, because the bracket would only just sit on top of the big metal screw and let the whole pedal beam wobble. 52:47. Perhaps it is a design similar to this that would have been most practical for the Jaredites. Image via lds.org. Only when it shall be that the water come in upon thee shall ye stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.Too bad Joseph didn't have someone like me around for editorial advice. He could have figured this out, and answered his own question, or maybe he was just trying to be difficult. It does not say to then close them right away. 530 BC That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Phew, the stink! There is a comparable situation with the Phoenicia, the recreated Phoenician ship based on wrecks discovered in the late 20th century. I'm thinking of Ether 2:20:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. Download. Both Noah’s ark and the Jaredite barges were revolutionary in that they had sealed decks. Small - (320x237px, 134.1KB) Medium - (800x591px, … Seriously, Noah's Ark was real? The Lord caused the wind to blow the Jaredites’ barges to the promised land. According to the Lord’s instructions, the barges were to be water-tight, peaked at the ends, with holes at the top and bottom creating some sort of reserve air supply (Ether 2:17-20). To describe the addition of lighting and ventilation as afterthoughts -- that seems something much more likely to be done by an amateurish writer with no experience of shipbuilding. Animal numbers may have been small, too. This partially under-seascape is painted in exquisite detail. Father Lehi. If so, the port in the bottom could have assisted in ventilation while also facilitating waste removal (and maybe fishing?). Fernando Alva Ixtlilxochitl relates that the ancestral Indians (who I believe were the Jaredites) "came to these parts [Mexico], having first crossed large lands and seas, living in caves and undergoing great hardships, until they came to this land, which they found good and fertile for their habitation. Randall Spackman notes that Hugh Nibley wrote at some length about the features of the Jaredite barges, comparing them to the description of Noah's ark as found in the Sumerian version of the Deluge story from Nippur in lower Mesopotamia, dated to before 3000 B.C. Jeff, Orbiting had mentioned that Smith could have told the truth about the plates but that it wouldn't rule out the possibility that the Nephites and Jaredites could have written fiction. I usually focus on the ceremonial ties between the Israelites the Hopi and those found in Mesoamerica or the possible lands of the Book of Mormon. Two adjoining bronze fragments of the band depict Phoenician ships from Tyre and Sidon delivering tribute, including metal ingots and what appear to be elephant tusks, to the Assyrian king. Pres Nelson, his wife and members of the 12 over 70 years were vaccinated And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.This makes it seem as if the default mode is to have the barge closed up, and only open the port when things get excessively stuffy. (New York Times, December 20, 1897) A Giant's remains in a Mound. Ether 6:7 says that the Jaredite barges "were tight like unto the ark of Noah." Or Jaredite barges found in Lake Michigan. Since they were light and floated like a fowl on the water (Ether 2:16), a portion of the bottom section could have been above the water line. I was sure the simple instructions were wrong as I assembled the frame for the Casio electric piano I purchased for my wife for Mother's Day. It could be that Joseph Smith was telling the truth about the gold plates all along, yet was mistaken in thinking they contained history rather than fiction. I don't quite know what to think about Jeff's owl and pussycat comments. Of course if you accept Smith and plates, you need to reject what Moroni said about their content, which is incongruous. He noted that the ark or deluge boat was peaked at both ends forming a "crescent shape" like the Jaredite … Jaredite ships Parent page: Book of Mormon/Book of Ether Book of Ether has parallels to Ugaritic flood text elements not found in the Bible What we wish to point out here is that there are various versions of the Flood story floating about, all of which … The Book of Mormon Jared has the same name as the biblical patriarch Jared (Hebrew: יֶרֶד ‎ Yéreḏ, in pausa יָרֶד ‎ Yā́reḏ, "to descend"), in the Book of Genesis, who was the sixth in the ten pre-flood generations between Adam and Noah; he was the son of Mahalaleel and the father of Enoch, and lived 962 years (Genesis 5:18). mp3 pdf. A painting by Robert T. Barrett depicting the Jaredite barges; Primary manual 1-69; Primary manual 4-53. And the Tower of Babel? Tomorrow! When the sons of Mosiah left on their mission to the Lamanites, it caused a succession crisis for Mosiah (Mosiah 28:1–10). [3]Built as a prototype in 1942 by Ukrainian immigrant Mike Tym, it was designed "to reduce losses of shipping from torpedoing, bombing and shelling,"[4] The tank was to be towed by boats. The Jaredite origin in the Old World probably dates to the third Millennium B.C., which due to the scarcity of historical material presents obstacles to the use of comparative literature or archaeology. receive vaccination against the COVID-19 pandemic in particular, you I don't think Noah's flood was global, but could the records and legends be based on a real Noah and a real ark that survived some kind of flood?Five hundred years from now, brief accounts of the pioneers crossing the plains in handcarts might seem just as implausible and mythical as the Jaredites journey, especially once we run it through a couple of foreign languages for translation. Jaredite Barges. It seemed like  the bracket was defective. According to the Book of Mormon, they fled across the ocean on unique barges and established an ancient civilization in America. Even if the Book of Mormon or any other ancient story from the Americas is true, figuring out where to place it is a challenge. Studies is pleased to announce multiple awards for 2021 that are available And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye … Could it have been in barges that were able to withstand intense waves? Sadly, many missionaries don't know how to cook much of anything, and what they do cook is often bland. Ancient peoples were perfectly comfortable using myth and story to explain their reality, express their values, and convey their truths. Copyright Jeff Lindsay. Ether consists of fifteen chapters. Then, in 6:8 it says, "And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters; and thus they were driven forth before the wind." As in the Bible, there may be multiple accounts and sources patched together, multiple traditions brought together or providing competing details, but why does that mean there wasn't an actual event that was behind the myths? Yes, the language would have gone through a couple of translations, but it's hard to see how that would account for specific quotes that put some pretty silly words in the mouth of an actual shipbuilder who has already built several barges.Also, Jeff, I of course agree with you that myth and fiction can be grounded in history. So why insist on reading a supposedly ancient text as if it were an instance of this modern, new-fangled, liberal thing called "history"? The ends of the barge are peaked, as described in Ether 2:17, and the holes in the top and bottom are present. :)Owls and pussycats are an improbably combination since one might eat the other, but when we consider the word "owl" in Early English would be "uf", according to the Early English dictionary at http://hord.ca/projects/eow/, and, given the late Early English northern regional consonant shift of "f" to "h", then it is not much of a stretch to see that the original "uf" might have actually been "uh" or, with a well-known diphthong variant, "eoh", which is one Early English word for "horse." In Ether 2:20 it says "And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. Just take a look at Shades' webpage on the Book of Mormon. Because they were unable to have windows, the Lord provided sixteen white stones that … It would certainly give a boost to the Church! But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the BoM's stories are not fictional, no more than the Bible's ancientness does with its stories. My point was that that view is a difficult position, since Smith said Moroni gave him the plates and that Moroni said they contained an account of real historical events. Monday, January 27, 2014. A Beautiful Ukrainian Perspective: How Can I Be Us... Halvor and Hannah Ronning: Inspiring Missionaries ... Where Thieves Break Through and Steal: Your Bank A... Jaredite Barges: Clearing the Air (with the Help o... Clement of Alexandria, Temple Mysteries, and the D... Come Follow Me Week 4: Doctrine and Covenants 3–5. And of course that's why Mormons treat the narrative in the book as real history, which Orbiting was wondering about also. There's plenty of evidence for the existence of many of its settings, peoples, and at least some of its individual characters.The Book of Mormon is different. Many Christians mock The Book of Mormon for this account because of the description of the barges themselves, the strange method of obtaining … Moses 7:62. Dr. Hugh Nibley has shown that several of these non-biblical details and oddities are also found in the Jaredite account. Seems to me it should be the reverse. When it came time to add the pedal assembly, the instructions called for removing two screws holding a metal bracket in place on each of the side panels, and instead of the two screws one big screw would be put in place that was supposed to hold a bracket that could connect to the beam holding the pedals. There is plenty of evidence that there really was a country called Great Britain, and it really did fight a war in the 18th century with a real nation called France that involved real Indian tribes called the Hurons and the Delawares. If so, thank you for at least acknowledging that in a subtle way. There's only fraud/delusion = fiction, or truth = historicity. . plainly won’t f... We’re four weeks into the year, and we’ve finally reached the beginning of The brief instructions we have point out that the ports can be opened to obtain fresh air. It's full of old and bad scholarship, as well as misinformation, which is ironic in view of the title of his webpage. I agree with you that I would prefer the port to be open whenever possible, and maybe they were. Found in Wisconsin USA. Apparently that last civil war did not extend northward from Ripliancum (Papaloapan Basin). Intended humor aside, he captured the essence of apologetics and ridiculed it better than almost anybody else. The Book of Mormon describes the Jaredites as the descendants of Jared and his brother, who lived at the time of the Tower of Babel. What would it mean if it were proved that the BoM really is an ancient text? I love you, tomorrow, you're only a day away.Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,To the last syllable of recorded time....Just you wait, Henry Higgins, just you wait! Until these wrecks were found, the only evidence of Phoenician ships was from depictions in art:"Contemporary representations of Phoenicians in Assyrian art depict a variety of Phoenician vessels. Just because the Bible really is ancient doesn't mean that Adam and Eve really existed! Perhaps coincidentally, the North Pacific current takes about the same time to cross from Japan to Mexico (Sorenson, p. 111). Location in the Scriptures: Ether 6. Microscopic Tunnel Vision: BOM Critics and DNA. These animals embark on a transoceanic voyage, readily explaining the origins of pre-Columbian New World horses and possibly cureloms. Somewhere between these two designs, no doubt, the Jaredite barges found their way across the ocean (Great Deep) Thus, these barges were far from what most writers envision and try to describe, with a deck and some time of entrance onto that deck. Many questions unanswered, but the basic concept is not impossible. It is simple and clean in appearance, with few embellishments. Later depictions on the walls of Khorsabad and Nineveh show horse-headed ships dragging cedar logs, round-hulled merchant ships, and warships with long, pointed prows. But this is where things get interesting. I don't think so. Closing is only necessary when water is gushing in from waves. Sites typically have Spanish names, and we rarely know how the name was known to the ancient inhabitants. This is my first time commenting. Join members of the Church History Department as they set the record straight on Mormon Myths. Can you explain? vaccination. With you carefully worded statement, I'm assuming you do recognize that we do have interesting evidence supporting specific Old World sites mentioned in the Book of Mormon such as Bountiful in Oman, the River Laman and Valley Lemuel, and the burial place Nahom. (Nor really for many word choices in the Book of Mormon) My guess is that it was tied to the barges on the canals near where he lived. But if it did happen, it would likely have been described quite differently. Left: An artist's idea of the Jaredite barges; Right: An early submarine with a peaked (pointed) nose or front. The Jaredite land northward, as described in the Book of Mormon, did not extend into the Mexico City area and probably not even into the Veracruz area. Thus the seemingly implausible owl and pussycat actually becomes a much more reasonable horse and pussycat (actually, horse and curelom, when we examine the early roots of pussycat and some probably mistranslations leading to its current form). I mean, do you know how much methane is produced by cows? Search the Scriptures: What did the Jaredites do while in the barges? Think about all those people and animals generating all that body heat. Over 5 million people had been killed by the time the three battles on the hill Comnor had ended. I know Orbiting doesn't believe any of this, but I was pointing out the problem with his comment in that regard. By "myth," of course, I mean not a falsehood, but a narrative that conveys certain fundamental beliefs and values.Also, wouldn't it make sense for the Jaredite mariners to keep the upper ventilator port open whenever possible, and close it only when necessary? Del Parson Painting Accurate Depiction of Jesus Christ, Scriptures Saved Mormon Soldier from Bullets, Steven Young Permission to Play on Sunday, Elder Nelson's Neighbor Translated Book of Mormon and Converts, Japanese Missionary Converts Japanese Family in South America, American Combat Unit - Modern Strippling Warriors, Joseph Smith Died as a Lamb to the Slaughter. Find 13 differences in their journey above and below the sea. Like the Jaredite barges, it would have been peaked on both ends. William Smith: Another Book of Mormon Witness, Remembering Mosiah Hancock and the 1838 Mormon War, Local Bus Station Bans Religious Conversation. In Mosiah 8, Limhi inquired of Ammon1 who could translate the 24 Jaredite plates. . The Jaredite Barges. I don't think that is impossible. No middle ground except for garrulous sophists. 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